Comparison of election results (1st May 2008)
In the following areas the Liberals fielded candidates in 2004 but not this year- Salford, Rochdale, Nuneaton, Wolverhampton. This year new candidates fought in the Wirral and Bournemouth. Karl-James Langford got 110 votes in 2004 and 73 votes in 2008 His percentage poll was pretty much the saem- 2.67%. long-serving Liberal councillor Rob Wheway and stalwart Colin Hallmark didn't stand this time. In Wolverhampton there were 3 candidates in 2004, (three constituencies fought in 1997!), now there is nothing. Apart from two wards in Exeter, one in Liverpool, one in Slough and Peterborough, and three in Wyre Forest, the Liberals have no real strength. Former councillor Bill Brandwood polled a negligible vote in the ward he formerly represented. Voters cannot understand what distinguishes Liberals from the LibDems and aren't interested enough to want to know. The party;s first post-merger leader has joined the LibDems. The sad truth is clear- the website tells a story- a fight that was fought and lost 20 years ago. The continuing Liberals have no significant future. I have helped Liberal candidates and followed their fortunes. But it is time to say goodbye!

newliberal, thanks for your very helpful summation of results in the other thread, and thanks to for your analysis of the current situation (above). Unlike you, I am quite new to the Liberals, and only really became a supporter of the party about six months ago. I don't share your despondency about its prospects. Clearly the Liberal Party is pretty titchy, and has been ever since the late 1980s. I agree that what strength it has is very concentrated in just a handful of wards - which is probably how it has managed to survive. These elections merely confirmed what we already knew - in those wards it is very entrenched, with popular, experienced, long-serving councillors who get re-elected time after time - but it has great difficulty in breaking out to win councillors in new areas. However, I think a party's prospects depend on the role it has to play in the national conversation. Currently there is no other party which is both liberal and at the same time sceptical about the corrupt and undemocratic EU. There are many liberal eurosceptics, and the EU is an issue unlikely to go away in the near future. Two things however have happened recently which improve the Liberal Party's prospects: 1) UKIP have veered off to the right, hoping to fill the space left by the Conservative Party's dash for the middle ground. This has left some liberal minded eurosceptical voters (like me!) reluctant to support it. 2) The LibDems have just proved again their inability to face up to the EU's problems by blocking a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon. (For their reasons, see Appius' posts on this forum!). This is rousing the more eurosceptical half of the LibDems from their slumbers. So the Liberals have a chance. Trouble is, the party may be too small and too focused in its existing wards to take advantage of this opening. Still, let's sort out it's internet presence - that will give it the ability to reach potential supporters across the country. Then let's see what happens. Like I say, I'm optimistic. I hope you don't give up at this stage because I think you are one of the few long-time Liberals to know how to use the internet properly!

I am curious to know exactly how you expect your party to grow when the main liberal party in the country (which has just become the second party nationally in terms of share of the vote in the local council elections) has done well to hold its ground and to make a few gains. This is, I fear, the hour of the Conservative Party. It will pass (I hope) but in the meantime it is very definitely the case. In going after what they see as the middle ground they have begun to use vaguely liberal rhetoric on some issues. This certainly does not indicate a significant ideological shift but it does make it harder for a genuinely liberal party - any liberal party - to make progress. Add this to the fact that very few people have heard of your party, even fewer know what you stand for and fewer still understand your insistence on not joining the Lib Dems. Add this to the way you slipped down in the number of seats held this year (whatever the reasons, you did) and I'd say it looks pretty unlikely that you're going to make any kind of breakthrough anytime soon. Look at the history of the pre-merger Liberal Party. It took decades to become even remotely significant again after its near-extinction in the 50s and 60s. Yes, it managed it. But it wasn't working in the shadow of a larger liberal party, as yours is. It seems extremely unlikely to me that your party ever will manage a breakthrough while the Lib Dems exist and remain strong. All things considered, the best chance for the cause of liberalism at the moment seems to be Gordon Brown's successes as Labour leader helping the Lib Dems to become the official Opposition to a Conservative Government in the next Parliament. Ideally we'd have STV, of course, but that's unlikely if, as seems probable, the Conservatives win a majority at the next General Election.

Re: Comparison of election results
The Liberal Party has certainly struggled to expand from it's strongholds. Their main prospects for expansion would be Birtley, Gateshead which they won by 50 votes this year and Broadwaters, Wyre Forest just 172 votes shy. If the Labour Party in Liverpool were following the national trend they would stand an improved chance of winning Clubmoor. The Cornwall elections for the unity authority next year might also provide a reasonably chance for the Liberals to go up from one councillor...or alternatively if the boundaries are drawn in an unfavourable way, it could wipe them out entirely. If the Liberal Party keeps on working in Leicester they should stand a decent chance of winning a couple of seats there in three years. At the moment the only way the Liberal Party seems to expand is through Liberal Democrat defections that are lost almost as soon as they're gained. The party should not rely on defections alone to gain them council seats. If the Liberal Party wants to expand then fielding candidates in Scottish parliamentary, Welsh Assembly and the GLA elections would be one way to try and do that. Undoubtedly it would be very hard to win a seat even on the list votes but it would at the very least make people more aware of who the Liberal Party are. The same goes for parliamentary by-elections, when was the last time the Liberals even stood a candidate in one? Will the Liberals stand a candidate in the Crewe & Nantwich by-election later this month or in the possible Henley by-election (if Boris Johnson stands down)? Sure the Liberal Party won't stand a chance of winning but again it will help to raise the profile of the party in parts of the country that are entirely new to them and might encourage more people to join. Apart from two wards in Exeter, one in Liverpool, one in Slough and Peterborough, and three in Wyre Forest, the Liberals have no real strength. You missed out three wards in Ryedale (won two and lost one by a narrow margin), one ward in Cornwall and one in Gateshead.

Appius Stuartus Tacitus writes: 'you'd have the full might of the campaigning machines of the three main parties pounding the pavements' Precisely the reason why many people might warm to the Liberals- not a 'campaigning machine' but a party of principled, thinking people, not slavishly repeating a party-line, but representing a refreshing 'liberal' approach to the diverse political issues which concern ordinary people.

post analysis
my result was in another ward. i had two results on 1st may; one on county level for 73 votes and another on town 144 votes, both not in the same ward I stood in 2004. I am devistated, that was not available to re-launch my party locally. Devistated too that we lost 2 seats nationally, and failed to make any gains. I'm also really upset that our main website hasn't been updated. And also that nobody has made any moves to start the talks for a Henley upon thames candidate. I cannot keep my political career together if this goes on. This is the final year for our party, unless we canb change our fortunes now. Karl-James Langford

Re: Comparison of election results
Reckon I'll have to stick up for Appius' contributions here. Yes, he isn't exactly here to encourage our efforts. He'd rather we packed it in and joined his party instead. But he is articulate and polite, and his comments give a handy up-to-the-moment guide to what some of the more reflective LibDems may be thinking about this or that issue. He also forces us to sharpen up our arguments. In return for this he gets a chance to try to convert some of us to his cause. Seems like a fair deal, to me. I note that any critic of the Liberal Democrats is not tolerated on any of their forums, as is any suggestion that they leave the Lib-Dems and join the proper Liberal Party. I can't say about any other the other LibDem sites but I have occasionally posted on the LDYS Forum (LDYS = LibDem Youth & Student) and have been made to feel quite welcome there. I don't think I managed to change many minds, though!

I don't think anyone would expect the Liberal Party to well (or frankly retain their deposit) but that wouldn't be the point of standing in the by-election. It would be a way of trying to raise the profile of the party, trying to expand into new areas of the country and pick up new members. If somehow they get a decent share of the vote then that would be a bonus. If the Liberal Party doesn't try to expand beyond their comfort zones they'll be stuck in the 15 to 20 places they currently are. I guess the question would be; what is the best way for them to try and expand?