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Appius Stuartus Tacitus- 04-07-2008

I don't listen to Europhope propaganda as you put it. I am in favour of Europe and a free trade area, just not the political union we have now. Then where did you get the idea that the new Treaty is the Constitution in all but name? It's the Europhobe propaganda which says that. :wink: I am quite intelligent enough to check the facts for myself, unlike many Lib Dems who seem to take at face value the `wonder` of the EU... :wink: Oh, you should see the debates we have on the Liberal Youth forums (found at www.ldys.org.uk/forum at the moment if you're interested in having a look). If you can read the arguments on there (there's one active at the moment) and still make jokes like that about us, well... :lol:

Millennium3- 05-07-2008
Judicial review of governments failure to hold a referendum
Cherie Blair's firm hired to stop EU treaty By Christopher Hope, Home Affairs Correspondent Last Updated: 2:22AM BST 21/04/2008 One of Britain's richest men has hired Cherie Blair's law firm to advise him on a £750,000 High Court battle that could force Gordon Brown to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Stuart Wheeler will go to the High Court in London tomorrow to seek a judicial review of the Government's decision. The challenge could delay the ratification of the controversial treaty by months. Mr Wheeler, 73, made more than £30 million from IG Index, the spread betting firm. He has raised £150,000 from 150 donors to pay for the action, which could cost £750,000. He will claim that the EU Reform Treaty is almost entirely the same as the defunct EU constitution on which the Government had promised to hold a referendum and the Government should therefore hold a vote on the treaty. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1896205/Cherie-Blair%27s-firm-hired-to-stop-EU-treaty.html

Millennium3- 05-07-2008
Stuart Wheeler wins right for a judicial review
Millionaire businessman wins right to seek a referendum on the EU Treaty Last updated at 20:49pm on 2nd May 2008 Comments (29) Stuart Wheeler: The Tory donor has won the right to seek a judicial review A wealthy Tory donor was yesterday given the go-ahead to launch a legal bid to force the Government to hold a referendum on the EU Treaty. Stuart Wheeler said Labour's decision to break a 'promise' to hold a vote should be declared unlawful. A judge at the High Court ruled that the 73-year-old - who made £30million-plus from the spread-betting firm IG Index - had "an arguable case" that should go to a full hearing next month. Mr Wheeler, who raised £150,000 from 150 donors for his legal fees, said: "The moral case for a referendum was overwhelming. The legal case is strong, based upon a series of promises to the electorate." At the centre of the case is Tony Blair's pledge in the 2005 Labour manifesto to hold a referendum on the EU constitution. The blueprint was abandoned when it was rejected by French and Dutch voters in 2005 and replaced by the Lisbon Treaty. Ministers insist it was so different from its predecessor that the referendum promise did not stand. The earlier treaty was scrapped after it was rejected in referendums in France and Holland in 2005, and the new agreement was instituted instead. The man who helped draft the original document, former French president Giscard D'Estaing, admitted that the Lisbon Treaty contained many elements "unchanged" from its predecessor. Mr Wheeler claims that this means Labour should have offered a referendum on it. The Government's decision to "resile from their promise" should be declared unlawful, he said. His lawyer, Rabinder Singh QC, said the application was based "on the underlying fundamental principles of good administration, fair play and straight dealing with the public". The businessman has raised £150,000 from 150 donors to pay for his High Court battle. Philip Sales QC, appearing for the Office of the Prime Minister, said Mr Brown and Foreign Secretary David Miliband denied that a promise had been made to hold a referendum on the new treaty, which they say is not comparable to the Constitutional Treaty. Mr Wheeler's claim was "misconceived on several grounds", including the fact that ratification of an international treaty was not a matter open to challenge in the High Court. Responding to the ruling, a Foreign Office spokesman said: "This decision simply means that there will be a hearing - it does not affect the outcome of the case. "The threshold for what constitutes an arguable case at the permission stage of judicial review is low. "Hardline Eurosceptics brought similar cases in respect of earlier European treaties, so this case is no surprise. Those challenges all failed. "We are confident of the strength of our case on this occasion and look forward to putting our arguments before the court in more detail in due course." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=563458&in_page_id=1770 Is it likely that the judge would have decided SW had an arguable case if the LT was not almost identical to the defunct Constitution? http://www.stuartwheeler.co.uk/

Millennium3- 05-07-2008
I Want a Referendum
From the IWAR web site Get Involved Over the coming weeks we will gradually add to the list of ways that you can get involved in the campaign. If you have any other suggestions please email: paul@iwantareferendum.com (1) Write to your MP (2) Link to our site (3) Are you a local councillor? (4) Organise a referendum in your parish (5) Order a campaign pack (1) Write to your MP If our campaign is going to succeed we need to make politicians in Westminster aware of the sheer number of people who want there to be a referendum on the EU Constitution. You could help the campaign tremendously by simply writing to your MP and urging them to honour their manifesto promise and back a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. The more people who write, the more MPs will feel inclined to pressure the Government into holding a referendum. To make your life easier we've come up with a number of suggestions that you could raise: Urge them to vote for a referendum on the EU Lisbon Treaty Tell them why the issue matters to you personally Remind them that at the last election all the main parties were elected on manifestos that promised a referendum on the EU Constitution. This is a matter of trust. In 2004 Gordon Brown said, “If we secure a treaty that is acceptable for Britain, then I believe we can also put it successfully to the British people.” Remind them that although the Government claims that the new treaty is nothing like the old EU Constitution other EU leaders have admitted it is almost exactly the same. German Chancellor Angela Merkel says, “The substance of the Constitution is preserved. That is a fact.” The Spanish Prime Minister Jose Zapatero admits, “We have not let a single substantial point of the Constitutional Treaty go… It is, without a doubt, much more than a treaty. This is a project of foundational character, a treaty for a new Europe.” For more quotes like this read our They Said It leaflet. You may also find some useful points in our other pamphlet Our Say. It is important that you personalise your letter as much as possible - MPs routinely ignore standardised campaign letters. By email To find out who your MP is and to send them an email please visit: http://www.writetothem.com/ By post Better still, contact your MP by letter. The more mail that arrives in their bags each day asking about a referendum the more they will start to take notice of the issue. To find out who your MP is visit: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ And then send your letter addressed to them at: House of Commons London SW1A 0AA http://www.iwantareferendum.com/involved.aspx#mass

Millennium3- 05-07-2008
IWAR
Admittedly labouring the point, but I have just received an E-mail from IWAR - this is the first part. 'Campaign News: 7 May 2008 1. Courts grant judicial review of Government's broken referendum promise Businessman Stuart Wheeler has won the first stage of his campaign to sue Gordon Brown over his attempt to break his promise to hold a referendum on the EU Constitution. At the High Court last Friday the Hon. Mr Justice Owen ruled that Stuart Wheeler had an "arguable" case and granted him a judicial review. Wheeler's barrister, Rabinder Singh QC, argued that the Government had promised a referendum on the EU Constitution and that his client therefore had a "legitimate expectation" that he should be able to vote in one on the Lisbon Treaty - which is virtually identical. Reflecting on the Government's claim that the Lisbon Treaty is completely different to the rejected EU Constitution, the Hon. Mr Justice Owen noted that "it is plainly arguable that there is no material difference between their provisions". He said: "The obligation to hold the promised referendum cannot be avoided simply by the fact that it now bears a different name."' Surely ATS will now cease claiming that the LT is substantially different to the defunct Constitution

newliberal- 05-07-2008

I wouldn't bet on ATS changing his tune on this. He continues in the face of the evidence to swear blind that the Lisbon treaty and the Constitution are not the same. If Giscard d' Estaing and Angela Merkel can't persuade him, do you think he will take notice of a judge? If you read the two documents, they are plainly very close. I don't know if in ATS's case it is ignorance (he hasn;t read both documents in full) or just another example of the lies and duplicity we have come to expect from so many pro-EU politicians.

Millennium3- 05-07-2008

I think he has come to accept this - based on his comments on the other thread.

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