Liberal Forum

[billbournemouth]

Hi Tom,

We like the forum and want it to continue - Your hard work IS appreciated so just take the liberal party logo down & continue Liberal Forum - They can't touch you for it

[billbournemouth]

Just change the line ?

Unofficial discussion board for the Liberal Party

to

Discussion board for Liberals & Greens

[TomWilde]

Bill, thanks for your kind words above - and also for your conspicuous support for the forum generally!

As I've mentioned, I'm now going to temporarily step away from the Liberal Party to support the UK Independence Party in the European Elections. The Liberal Party won't be standing in London, where I live, and I really don't feel able to stand by and watch while the fascist BNP attempts to corner the market in opposition to the EU. Therefore I feel I must do what I can to support UKIP for the next few months, even though I dislike some of their policies on non-EU related issues, and even though they are a squabbling bunch of amateurs. I feel I have to do what little I can to help keep open the political space for (moderate, non-racist) euroscepticism.

I don't know what other Liberals will think of me for this decision. Not a lot, I suspect. Still, there we go and I can do no other.

However, whatever the Liberals think of me, I still think well of the Liberals. This country has a lot of things wrong with it, and I think the Liberal Party is potentially part of the solution, not part of the problem. I think the party needs a space like this forum, and I was happy to set it up. I think it would be a shame for it to either close down or become a more general forum for liberals and greens of all parties, as you suggest. Therefore I'd like it to keep running as the 'Liberal Forum', but as I'll be campaigning for UKIP for a while I'm not sure how appropriate it is for me to run it. That's why I said in the Activist zone that it might be good if somebody else - preferably a Liberal Party member - took over as moderator. If nobody comes forward I'll certainly carry on running it myself, at least until somebody complains and tells me to stop. This is an unofficial forum, after all.

[Leftwing and Liberal]

Tom.

Your hard work and sensible 'moding' of the forum are appreciated. It'd be great to have you hang around, irrespective of your short-term priorities.

Kind Regards,

Barrie (Torbay)

[TimPerkins]

Members of Greater Manchester and District Liberal Association have expressed concern over recent more pro-EU direction, over failure to stand candidates, over suppression of internal debate and failure to move our party forward. We wish to keep together a network of past and present Liberal Party members and will support each other in a collective move towards a unified expression of anti-EU Liberalism.
We want to organise a Northern conference for ordinary members initially to discuss the way forward.[ where all former and present members will be welcome].
We also want to work with others who favour anti-EU liberalism in other parties.
We recognise the need for the Liberal Party to differentiate itself from the Lib Dems. Indeed, we remember the old marketing dictum- 'differentiate or die'.
We agree with views expressed by Cllr. Chris Lenton of Liverpool about the inevitable decline of the Party without radical action.
I hope you feel the same and will wish to associate yourself with this network which we in the North-West are keen to help facilitate. We welcome your views and conribution to the debate. It is time for us to reassess where we stand, to reassert our essential principles, to renew our policy agenda and to seek a greater unity amongst anti-EU liberals in all parties and none.

Tim Perkins

NEC Member,
Chair, Greater Manchester Liberals.

_________________
''Hold firmly, without wavering , to the Hope that we confess.''
_________________
''Hold firmly, without wavering , to the Hope that we confess.''

[newliberal]

I'm sorry Tim, I was at the last meeting of Greater Manchester Liberals and my recollections of the debate are clearly different from yours. Debate has not been stifled in the party, and the motion we passed was not simply 'anti-EU'. The idea of a northern meeting was for Liberal activists to organise more effectively together and to debate a range of policies, not least, local government issues. If the motion from Manchester is presented as simply, anti-EU at Assembly, I for one shall oppose it. Our debate is open and, I thought, honest, but I find your description of the Manchester party's views at best, a simplification and at worst, downright misrepresentation. Debate in the party has not been stifled- a full debate took place at the February NEC. No doubt further debate will ensue, not least at Assembly in September.
I post this regretfully, and I publicly contradict your account of our meeting with reluctance.

Andrew Montgomerie. Treasurer Greater Manchester Liberal Association and member, Liberal Party NEC

[VkmSpouge]

This is really why you need minutes taken.
_________________
Blackadder: Marvelous thing, democracy. Look at Manchester; population, 60,000; electoral roll, 3.

[billbournemouth]

The problems I have found here in Bournemouth are that NO MATTER what I say or what literature is put out making it clear that not only are we not the Lib-Dems we are opposed to them the fact that we are Liberal + anything means that people lump us in with the Liberal Democrats.

So the first impediment before policy is explained is time and futile effort saying we are not the Liberal Democrats.

The next impediment is that the Liberal Party seems incapable of adopting policies quickly to keep up with events as they occur ( A week is A LONG time in politics/media ) Where are liberal party candidates for June Local Government Elections?

My experience of the party is like pushing water up hill. I suspect that apart from very confined areas it exists in name only. As 'old' liberal party members cease to become active they are not being replaced.

At a time when a decent alternative party has never been more relevant the Liberal Party seems totally irrelevent.

In conclusion why on earth should Tom, myself,and Steve ? have to support UKIP or the Greens in the Euro Elections ?

[Old Liberal]

Looking at some of the comments on this site it is clear that there is a misunderstanding of how the Liberal Party works. The election of a new president and a new Chair of the NEC does not in any way indicate a change of Euro policy. This Party is not into 'isms' the elected Officers do not make policy. Policy is made by the Assembly and every member of The Liberal Party can attend and vote on new and/or amended policy. The policy on Europe is exactly the same as it was when Steve Radford was President. This is a fact.
The failure to put up candidates for the Euro elections is down to the fact that a £5000 deposit is needed to put up candidates. We just don't have the money.
There has NEVER been a move to prevent debate and in my 20 yrs in the reformed party this has NEVER been an issue. In fact, in my humble opinion, there has been too much debate and too little action by some members which has tied up time that could have been better used used by doorstep campaigning.
There are a number of County Council candidates all in areas where Liberal Party members are trying to build the Party from grassroots. Some Liberal members on this forum spend a lot of time knocking the Liberal Party. Maybe they might consider contacting the candidates with an offer of practical help or just support.....rather than constantly carping! I wish!!!!!

[newliberal]

Agreed!

[TimPerkins]

Andrew assumes i was speaking about views expressed at recent Association meetings. Iwas not. I am expressing my own views alongside the general mood of those colleagues with whom I've discussed these issues. Obviously, Assembly makes policy and the EU shall be debated if the motion we have submitted, which Andrew has agreed, is selected for debate.
I can assure everyone that our secretary is both acciduous and punctilious in minute - taking.
The refusal of the new NEC to properly respond to calls for a special meeting, made by a former president, amounts to the stifling of debate.
Sadly, it's now too late. I welcome the belated entry of an old Liberal onto this forum, presumably to try and shoot down all of us whipper-snappers.
I see noone has taken on my 'differentiate or die' point.
_________________
''Hold firmly, without wavering , to the Hope that we confess.''

[Old Liberal]

Tim, No insults please, I have no intention of shooting anyone down in flames that is not the way I do things!
I joined this forum purely because I was unhappy with the references to the change in our policy on Europe. It is obvious that someone is misrepresenting the facts, I wanted to remind folks on this forum that we do not make policy on the hoof! One of the main differences between us and the three main parties!

I do not know the ins and outs of why a request for a special Exec meeting was refused. A refusal to hold a special meeting in itself does not mean that debate was stifled, sometimes Party Officers have to refuse to hold special meetings purely on administrative grounds. I think it also needs to be borne in mind that members of the Exec have to fund their own travel expenses.

[billbournemouth]

[billbournemouth]

bit of fun but serious point.>>>>

The Prime minister was asked to comment on the state of parliament. Gordon Brown said there were many things that concerned Labour Party members all these could be considered when the party met in October.

David Cameron produced the parties policies for the Local Government Elections. This directed voters to the repeal of the corn laws, a policy popular since it had never been amended. There were other policy ideas but voters would have to wait until the party conference in Blackpool to see what theses were.